Variable Bitrate; ProRes is smart enough to regulate the bitrate as per the activities the frames have. X-H2S digital camera supports internal recording of 4:2:2, 10-bit Apple ProRes HQ/ ProRes 422/ ProRes LT, and ProRes 422 Proxy at resolutions of up to 6. Apple ProRes 4444 is a high-quality solution for storing and exchanging motion graphics and composites, with excellent multigeneration performance and a mathematically lossless alpha channel of up to 16 bits. A 5 second video rendered in Vegas using native ProRes 444 format with alpha channel is 1. FP let’s you take ProRes 4k60 fps at the expense of colorspace and your phone heating up 😅. 0GB. Show More. The setting for ProRes resolution is set to 2K (17:9) or HD, and you cannot change it. Create broadcast-quality, high-resolution, high bit rate video files. *Apple ProRes codec can be only recorded to CFexpress Type B card *Bitrate for Apple ProRes codec is not selectable. Q0. Auto-suggest helps you quickly narrow down your search results by suggesting possible matches as you type. Log ProRes clip in a sequence with Maximum Bit Depth on. 3. 25 MB/s . All ProRes codecs support any frame size (including SD, HD, 2K, 4K, 6K, 8K, and larger) at full resolution. Because companies publish their own specifications in different formats, it can be difficult to compare codecs directly. If you want to use h. However, while this camera has many great features, it has some flaws and frustrations. The ProRes RAW HQ is 3-to-1 compression, and the ProRes RAW, the base one, is 5-to-1. What version of Avid? The ProRes export is "Quicktime" which Avid has 2 of. 97 fps. *Apple ProRes codec can be only recorded to CFexpress Type B card *Bitrate for Apple ProRes codec is not selectable. 1 if you change to a preset for AppleiPod Video Small the level setting is on 1. 1. 2K recording with ProRes, high-efficiency image capture, and dedicated AI processing. The file will be large, but significally smaller than HQ but not as small as H. 264. If you choose the quick export option in the upper right corner of premiere pro (its an icon that looks like a box with an arrow coming out of the top) From there hit the tab and switch it to High Quality HD. Report. 97 fps のソー スで約 147 Mbps です。 • Apple ProRes 422 LT：Apple ProRes 422 より圧縮率の高いコーデックで、データレートは約 70 % で、ファイルサイズは 30 % 小さくなっています。 *Selectable bitrate will be changed depends on the setting. Then I looked at some footage from a different job and a different Mini. Vashi Nedomansky, ACE. Open Adobe Media Encoder and click the plus icon in the top left corner. Number of simultaneous 4K streams ProRes RAW also supports accelerated reduced-resolution decoding Apple ProRes. 264 into these decks. If you shot using H. The nature of ProRes is a variable bit rate (VBR) codec. So, there's no option with ProRes to set or dial in the bit rate like there is with H264. A two-hour ProRes 422 720p video file will be 55. This means at the cinema frame rate of 24p we can expect just 200Mbit for 4K RAW. 265, LongGOP or All-I, 4:2:0 or 4:2:2, and 8 bit or 10 bit. This ffmpeg command: ffmpeg -i input. ProRes is an apple product after all. profile <integer>: You can use this option to choose the ProRes profile to encode. Look up the bitrate of the Ninja's 12 bit prores, then research the sustained write speed of the WD blue. S23 ULTRAS 'PRO RES' VIDEO. H. Construction. I plan on shooting hundreds of hours of footage with this camera, and I would like to know which settings are good for different situations so that I don't unnecessarily go through hard drives like crazy or. 264. I really wish Blackmagic would add a more compressed codec like a high quality h. It is not just 12 bit. 88fps from the standard 8-bit HDMI output of the Sigma fp. It had a bitrate of 120mbs and needed to be 160mbs. Some banding and blocking. FFmpeg contains two ProRes encoders, the prores-aw and prores-ks encoder. Prores is a 'variable bit rate codec'. This means they only use as many bytes as needed for a particular frame. Apple ProRes 422 LT is the third-highest data-rate version of the ProRes 422 codecs. MP3 for Audio Podcasting. As for viewing ProRes files, I can only assume you are on a pc since Macs all play ProRes (provided the drive is fast enough) without any problems at all. The Atomos Ninja V, Sigma fp and ProRes RAW opens up a whole range of creative opportunities for our customers and I can’t wait to see what users can do with it. Apple ProRes formats; Subsampling: Format: Bit-rate: 4:2:2: Uncompressed 4:2:2 video: 1,326Mbps: 4:2:2: Apple ProRes 422 HQ: 220Mbps: 4:2:2: Apple ProRes 422: 147Mbps: 4:2:2: Apple ProRes. Apple has released a new video codec into the filmmaking post production world. For the highest quality output, choose “QuickTime” format and codec “DNxHR” for Windows (“ProRes” for MacOS). The bitrate is controlled by bits_per_mb parameter which specifies how many bits to supply for coding one MB. Overall bit rate : 18. For example, I’ve found (per YouTube’s official guide) that 4k footage literally looks best when the bitrate is between 35-45Mbps. For the documentation of the undocumented generic options, see the Codec Options chapter . Say 100mb import -> editing -> 20mbit rendering. Other agencies may accept another codec like GoPro Cineform or DNxHR to deliver. So if you’ve got the time, upload the best video you’ve got. . Image courtesy: FiLMiC Pro Intra-frame codec. Step 1: Enable ProRes. Images recorded in a 4:4:4 codec are almost indistinguishable from uncompressed HD or UHD material. Note the comparison to ProRes. If you don't care too much about how your proxies look. 0 means best and it goes up to 32 which is worst. That sound like 90s to me. You're hopefully using PR 422 (or HQ) for mastering. YouTube favours 4K. The X-OCN LT has a lower bitrate even when compared to ProRes 422. X-H2S digital camera supports internal recording of 4:2:2, 10-bit Apple ProRes HQ/ ProRes 422/ ProRes LT, and ProRes 422 Proxy at resolutions of up to 6. Hi, the bit rate of DNxHR at UHD 4k60p with the SQ option is too high of a bit rate to fit 10 hours of recording on it (7 hours max), on my Ninja V, and I see that ProRes 422 LT is a slightly lower bit rate and will record for 10 hours on my 4TB SSD. I’ve used this version of the codec in the past for multi-cam editing on a late 2007. Bit rate setting should be 320 kbps. The following chart is from the ProRes White Paper that Vishu linked to: 1920-by-1080 Apple ProRes 422 HQ at 29. Apple ProRes 422 HQ - 117. And external BRAW is less accurate (in terms of White Balancing) compared to internal BRAW from Blackmagic cameras. The problem is, in Adobe Media Encoder, there isn't any options to limit the bitrate at all. Look at this quick image from a quick test I did. Movie Recorder properties. Key Features. The file will be large, but significally smaller than HQ but not as small as H. No banding or blocking. Aluminum Alloy. The 128GB handset variant can shoot ProRes at 30fps, but at a significantly. 2 Pass is pointless for this kind of thing as you've already learned in your other posts. This codec is best when exporting your film for film festival screenings or delivery to a major streaming service or broadcast network. QUICKTIME (PRORES 422/HQ or 444) QUICKTIME (DNxHD for 720p/1080p or DNxHR for 4K+) These codecs will most likely be higher bitrate than your footage, so while it won't improve your actual footage, it will allow more flexibility when working with your footage. Above you can see the bitrates for the various resolutions and codecs. One of the main strengths of the Blackmagic RAW is the ability to process all the de-mosaic (the process which turns the sensor data into image) calculations inside the camera instead of using the computer’s CPU, which leads. In the ProRes RAW White Paper (dated November 2020 as of this writing but updated frequently), Apple states that the ProRes RAW family is based on the same principles and underlying technology as existing Apple ProRes 442 Family and Apple ProRes 4444 Family codecs, most notably support for intraframe (I-frame) only and variable bit rate. alpha test. 23. In October 2021 Nikon announced its flagship hybrid mirrorless, the Z9. It also has ALL-Intra recording (C4K, 4K or 3. So, if you want to compare codecs like ProRes vs DNxHD, ProRes vs Cineform, DNxHD vs. To record a ProRes video, tap ProRes in the Camera app, then record your video. MKV is the default container and recommended for most use cases, as it can be easily remuxed into a more compatible format. The term codec simply comes from the shortening of two words: coder and decoder (co/dec). Studio for >=4k mj2 – – yes Kakadu. For bitrate settings that suits your footage you have to try different settings. The 2nd being a much simpler. With the option to record in either H265 or various ProRes formats -- as H265 is very efficiently compressed in camera -- for a. The bitrate you need to get equivalent quality from HEVC to ProRes is fairly similar. Our time remaining counter in the upper left will let you know how. No banding. ProRes. As for the size, the lower resolution ProRes Proxy options are about 36Mbps bitrate. ProRes seems to be quasi-variable bitrate in implementation; it will scale bitrate based on quality level, frame size, frame rate, and frame complexity. Quality depends on bitrate, which can vary a lot within each codec, so no generalization is possible. Data rate. 30 percent smaller file sizes. But should you find that you are low on storage space, then you have the option to use. Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) VBR: 40-60 Mbps. Bitrate at 4K50P for 422 is 983Mbps, 422 HQ is 1475Mbps. 500GB @ 5K60 ProRes RAW: ~25 minutes. If your source file is in a different codec (say, h. You can choose the encoder you want using the -vcodec option. 265. 11 would be a good bet, 9 if a slightly better quality is required. Datarate for any VBR codec depends on image content. The $600 Atomos Ninja V is one of the best as it unlocks the maximum bit rate and bit depth from your camera’s video signal. ProRes is a codec technology developed by Apple for high-quality, high-performance editing in Final Cut Pro. 4 MB/s. So. You also get built in ND filters, user changeable lens mount and recording to dual CFast or SD cards. 8:1 gives you a constant bitrate of 121 MB per second – about 7 GB of footage per minute. Log vs. 97 30 47. ), encoded frame size (1920-by-1080, 1280-by-720, etc. You must use Slog2 to shoot using the external recorder. FYI ProRes is not a lossless codec. Data rates vary based on codec type, image content, frame size, and frame rate. 264. 5Mbps, different resolutions, file sizes between 10-30MB…no change. Hence, one minute of filming will cost you about 5. But not in ProRes. Fast forward to 3:00 on the YouTube video to see the difference in highlight recovery. Then tap Formats, and within this sub-menu you'll see a section for Video Capture. . 63 MB/s Apple ProRes Proxy - 24. Nikon. Bitrate: 13-15Mbps Codec: H. g. The RAW files are optimal for HDR finishing, or for greater flexibility in SDR (Rec. 00p, 25p, and 29. When talking about compression, it’s vital to understand the role of bitrate. Alle ProRes-Codecs von Apple sind bildunabhängige (oder „Intra-Frame“-) Codecs, d. modes. This parameter determines the quality of the resulting prores movie - both the resulting size and bitrate. 562 120 1 Compact Drive 1TB/Compact Drive 2TB, if first value has a dash, it is max fps for ProRes 4444XQ - max fps for 4444 and 422 HQ v4. 264 is better than ProRes. 000 kbps and the option to change it is disabled. I have said it before, and I will say it again. Really an underrated format though, capturing that oversampled video directly. This means, every frame consumes equal amounts of bytes no matter the content. The target data rates given are all for 1920 x 1080 video at 29. Then there's the addition of a new, F-Log 2 gamma curve. ProRes is a video codec, like H. These bitrate values are an “average quality” starting point for 1080 HD. Maximum Bitrate: 16. *Selectable bitrate will be changed depends on the setting. In real life and depending on the visual complexity of your video your actual datarate will vary and generally not hit the maximum of 220Mb/s. In the Video tab, scroll down to Bitrate Settings, and change Target Bitrate (Mbps) to 3. Apple ProRes is a variable bitrate codec, therefore a longer recording time than initially indicated on the camera may be possible. Apple ProRes White Paper (2022)Re: ProRes with Constant bitrate. While Constant Bitrate is a surefire setting, to make sure the file sizes and quality will remain as advertised, it may cause issues when the footage being captured could do without the extra compression, ensuring that all details of a busy scene are clear. But. So, the algorithm may 'see' more detail for interlace. 7 to 45. Prores is a 'variable bit rate codec'. This codec is perfect for environments where storage capacity and data rate are most important. It's entirely possible that I didn't pay enough attention to export settings, but given the fact that we tend to keep copies of videos as ProRes exports anyway, it felt kind of pointless to create more files than we needed anyway, so I not looking into this further for. You must keep the total of both average and maximum audio and video bit rates under 10. One of the main differences is the ability to capture 8K ProRes Raw up to 29. The CFexpress Type B slot will be required to record higher bitrates when shooting in ProRes 422 HQ and 800 Mb/s 4:2:2 10-bit ALL-Intra footage. That'll take 12-36x longer than H. 264 files. ProRes Proxy at 720p is 18-45Mbps based on 24-60fps. As stated by Atomos: “Atomos and Canon are delighted to be bringing customers a world-first for capturing stunning pristine 8K images with such an affordable, capable. Constant Quality. ProRes とは SD ファイルサイズで HD 画質を実現し、映像業界で広く採用されている。ProRes コーデックの6つのバージョンは、基本属性が共通している。ProRes は、可変ビットレート（VBR）エンコーディ. ProRes 422 will probably do just fine, but if you have lots of storage space, then going up to ProRes 422 HQ will have a slight edge. "Apple の各 ProRes フォーマットの違い" . (The smallest Cineform I could get was more like 100Mbps) If you wanted to actually calculate the size you can use the equation: File Size = Bitrate * Time, where the time is seconds and the bitrate is Mbps. You get 10 bit 422 output over the HDMI into whatever recorder (and by extension, whatever codec and it's inherent bitrate) you like. Since the color space of Standard Definition tends to be 4:1:1--formats like H. Try shooting in: - 4K DCI - - Ultra HD -The Panasonic Lumix S5IIX is essentially the same camera as the S5II, but it has a few key upgrades specifically designed for professional video shooters. 264 (smaller file to upload), then at 1080p 24fps you stop seeing a benefit after about 25Mbps (with h. I’ve a lot of different combinations and I can’t seem to get FFMPEG to use a fixed bitrate. 2K (2048 × 1080) at ProRes 422 HQ and ProRes 422 up to 120 fps. *Apple ProRes codec can be only recorded to CFexpress Type B card *Bitrate for Apple ProRes codec is not selectable. Image Credit: Adobe. " In order to compare the members of the. Solved: We are exporting to ProRes through AME. *Recording time can become short depending on the temperature and/or shooting conditions: Film simulation mode File Size: Length (HH:MM:SS:FF): Length in Minutes: Length in Frames: 35mm 4P (Feet+Frames): 35mm 3P (Feet+Frames): 35mm 2P (Feet+Frames): 16mm (Feet+Frames): On average, one hour of HD footage (ProRes 422) requires approximately 51GB of storage; or roughly 850MB per minute. Any ideas? - 11112615To shine, it needs a high Bitrate. ProRes is already diminishing return for playback. Further information is available in the libvpx API documentation. AJA KONA 10-bit Log RGB 720 AJA KONA 10-bit Log RGB. 1/4 the file size but detail loss is not massive compared to 4k. Los iPhone 13 Pro y 13 Pro Max con memoria interna de 128 GB podrán. With ProRes, the bit rate (or data rate) is determined primarily by ProRes codec type (Proxy, LT HQ, etc. In general, the lower the bit rate, the smaller the file size, and, potentially, the lower the. Aluminum Alloy. Now, close the "Settings" app and. YouTube used to publish settings for people with Enterprise class connections - the 1080 size was 50Mb/s (They suggest 8Mb/s for 1080 as a minimum. Many reviewers test the sustained write speed. Data rates vary based on codec type, image content, frame size, and frame rate. g. When you connect proxies, that will automatically engage, and you'll notice a MASSIVE performance boost in Premiere. This site contains user submitted content, comments and opinions and is for informational purposes only. ProRes Proxy - DNxHD 36 ProRes LT - DNxHD 80 ProRes 422 -. 98 fps. It'd at least be a lower bitrate than the other ProRes flavors, which would help reduce storage space requirements for your proxies. 264 MP4, VP8 WebM, or ProRes QuickTime format. Apple ProRes 4444 XQ and Apple ProRes 4444 support image sources up to 12 bits and preserve alpha sample depths up to 16 bits. Apple's white paper says it should be 1061Mbps. Dedicated recording in ProRes 4444 XQ, ProRes 4444, ProRes 422 HQ, ProRes 422, and ProRes 422 LT, with resolutions up to 4K (4096 x 2160) Proxy recording available up to ProRes 422 HQ in 2K (2048 x 1080) Construction. Its stacked BSI APS-C sensor, capable of recording 6. It includes an. Also, continuous recording times up to 160 minutes. ProRes 4444 and 4444 XQ render even better quality with YUV 4:4:4, a color depth of 10 or 12 bits. 264. Apple ProRes 422 LT: A more highly compressed codec than. (However,. ProRes : Frame dimensions: Frame rate: Apple ProRes 4444 data rate: Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) data rate: Apple ProRes 422 data rate: Apple ProRes 422 (LT). 63 MB/s Apple ProRes 422 LT - 54. 265, or even moreso a lossless codec like cineform or prores) then using x265 will give a visually superior output than x264 will for the same. The lowest-bitrate variation of the ProRes codec, intended for use in editing software as a smaller version of larger files like ProRes HQ. Going down to 960x540 is probably in the 12-36Mbps range depending on the frame rate. r/VideoEditing. Apple ProRes 422 (HQ), Apple ProRes 422, Apple ProRes 422 (LT) Profile (for H. 97; Fast encoding and decoding (both at full size and half size) ProRes 4444 and ProRes 4444 XQ Like standard Apple ProRes 4444, this codec supports up to 12 bits per image channel and up to 16 bits for the alpha channel. Si su video se grabó en este tamaño, entonces desea cargarlo en ese tamaño. 1. The third generation URSA Mini Pro features new color science and shoots 80 megapixels per frame in Blackmagic RAW. 97 fps. Recording 4K ProRes files requires 4K and above formats in 17:9. Depending on your computer’s capacity, you should also experience faster export times with Studio compared to the mobile app. Apple ProRes 422 LT is a more highly compressed codec than Apple ProRes 422, with roughly 70 percent of the data rate and 30 percent smaller file sizes. Source: X-OCN White Paper. Huge files and not the best format out there, but I can always downgrade it with a video edit software later. For the best image quality, I recommend using ProRes RAW HQ. Now, my question is, is this ProRes 422 LT option 10 bit or 8 bit? I need 10 bit for HDR delivery. This preset matches your output video to the core source settings (resolution, frame rate, etc. No banding or blocking. In Adobe Premiere Elements 2023, when I use "Add Media" to add any iPhone Prores video with a H. 16:9. Now tap Formats at the top. Unlike the H. Y si le. *When recording video at 25℃ from a cool start, with the auto power-off temperature set at “High,” bitrate of 100Mbps, a vertical battery grip VG-XH attached and using three batteries. It won't be identical, but you'd probably not notice the difference in a single generation. I was able to see very slight differences after 6 generations. No banding or blocking. But Pro Res will look better than even a similar bitrate h. When you begin using an iPhone 14 Pro Max for video, make sure to set-up the device properly. Internal Recording. Some banding and blocking. i think its default 4:2:0 for h. 4K, on the other hand, requires close to 226GB of storage—almost 4GB per minute. 265. Als Codec-Technologie mit variabler Bitrate (VBR) verwendet Apple ProRes weniger Bits auf einzelnen Bildern, bei denen eine Codierung mit einer höheren Datenrate nicht von Vorteil wäre. For bitrate settings that suits your footage you have to try different settings. According YouTube below X-H2s only one camera provide built-in internal Apple ProRes 422 LT video recording feature. For bitrate settings that suits your footage you have to try different settings. Press the down arrow to the video mode, then press right. Apple ProRes 422 Proxy. easyDCP(3) RGB & YUV422 JPEG2000 video mov, mxf Op1A, mxf Op‑Atom – for IMFs Yes Native, Kakadu RGB, YUV422 and YUV444 (8 ‑bit, 10 bit, 12 bit. ) YouTube will also allow codecs like ProRes (Mezzanine/Post codecs) - which are even larger. Incidentally, I did my own subjective tests looking at footage I shot comparing ProRes HQ and ProRes LT at 1080p. Un iPhone de 128 GB puede almacenar un poco más de una hora en este formato mientras que el modelo de 256 GB alcanza las dos horas de grabación. To get more documentation of the libvpx options, invoke the command ffmpeg -h encoder=libvpx, ffmpeg -h encoder=libvpx-vp9 or vpxenc --help. *Selectable bitrate will be changed depends on the setting. Saturday September 10, 2022 3:31 pm PDT by Joe Rossignol. The BMCC can shoot "ProRes 422 HQ" which has a target data rate of up to about 220 megaBITS/sec for 1080p30 (10-bit 4:2:2). This includes ProRes Proxy, ProRes LT, ProRes 422, and ProRes 422 HQ. 640 x 480 for 4:3 content. Indeed, Sony mentions that X-OCN files are computer-friendly, allowing for fast workflows even with modest post-production. DNxHR 444, ProRes 4444 and ProRes 4444 QC are the only codecs with embedded alpha channels. *Apple ProRes codec can be only recorded to CFexpress Type B card *Bitrate for Apple ProRes codec is not selectable. As an example though, for ProRes 422 HQ at 4K 30p the target data rate is 943 Mb/s or 7. Recording 4K ProRes files requires 4K and above formats in 17:9. FOR OLDER SYSTEMS. It can also capture 12-bit ProRes RAW video. My test clip size reduced from 3. A testament to how good the ProRes codecs are is that they are still. 265. Scroll down and select "Camera. For ProRes, follow the standard presets in your video editor to export your file. 2K is expected to be around 700 Mbit/s, which is 1/3 of Arriraw Open Gate’s 2. . The target data rate is approximately 147 Mbps at 1920x1080 and 29. Since my original files from my camera are only 35Mb/s, i thought that maybe i'd just export as ProRes 422 Proxy instead of ProRes 422. 265’s CTUs can process 64 x 64 blocks, leading to more efficient compression. For ProRes (meaning the codec is prores_ks), change the rate control to Quality-based VBR, then set Quality to 100%. So different Prores levels (422 proxy, 422 LT, 422, 422 HQ, 4444) mean the quality/compression levels. Best practices and export settings for various platforms. ProRes 422 LT Thanks to a filmmaking app, we now know the bitrate when shooting in maximum video quality in the iPhone 13 Pro. You can also use Proxy or Low-Bitrate HD formats Cineform, Prores and DNxHD as well. in Software, Announcements. The new Z8 packs in a lot of the same features and functionality as the Z9 which certainly does. For example, ProRes HQ for 1080p at 29. However, there are six versions of ProRes, each of which vary in bit rate (and file size). Seeing a Buffer option means the Codec tab is in constant bitrate mode. ProRes will require the use of a CFexpress Type B Card. The following chart is from the ProRes White Paper that. 4 MB/s. CRF is an encoding mode that adjusts the file data to achieve a selected quality level rather than a specific data rate. The actual bit rate in a ProRes recording varies depending on the recording format (FPS & resolution) and a scene's content. Now go back to the previous page and tap Record Video. Your iPhone supports these resolutions and frame rates: ProRes support for 256 GB, 512 GB, and 1 TB storage capacity: 4K at 60 frames per second (fps), iPhone 15. 264) Baseline, Main, High. Si hacemos números con el formato ProRes grabado a 1080p los números son ya bastante diferentes. Target Bitrate: 14. 264) together with high-bitrate AAC or lossless audio (e. 264 File Type: mp4. Then you find a nice lossless codec (prores for example) or an "ok" codec (h. The lowest-bitrate variation of the ProRes codec, intended for use in editing software as a. mp4 The input framerate should already be between 25-30, as exported by your friend, as well the resolution. 265 (HEVC) codec Apple currently uses to capture video, ProRes allows you to capture higher video quality at the. ProRes supports different data rates and different resolutions (from SD to Ultra HD). ProRes started to take over the production side after the ARRI Alexa was introduced in 2010 with a built-in ProRes recorder. Reply brlutnick BMPCC4K • Additional comment actions. the same though. It's NOT for a lack of quality however. If you are not happy with the default, you can set them to the ones you prefer. It has a high bit-rate, which means it retains excellent image resolution. A camera that supports Apple’s ProRes CODEC. 12-bit N-RAW, ProRes RAW HQ and 10-bit ProRes 422HQ and H. Apple ® ProRes. Encoded Dimensions. If I have difficult footage—something with a lot of fine detail or motion—I will increase the bitrate. The lack of 4K ProRes video recording support on 128GB models is likely due to the 4K videos having very large file sizes. ProRes also has the benefit of coming in two main formats; 4:4:4: and 4:2:2. Some cameras now seem to be bitrate/transfer speed limited, basically trying to max out what can be output within a bitrate/transfer "ceiling".